New Year, New Car

"Future Heap Owner" (aperiodic) 01/02/2019 at 18:38 • Filed to: Necessary car shopping without E90M3

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Well, it’s gotten to be that time again — the time when I’ m checking the vehicles section of CL every day — and I need your help, Oppo! (Repost for the Evening Crowd.)

One of the few, tiny upsides of being suddenly alone is that I now have a legit excuse to obtain a new vehicle, and also more budget for it. So, long story short, I’m looking to purchase a used manual hatchback or wagon for about $4k in the PNW, in a couple of months when a windfall comes through. What should it be? Well, Oppo, that’s where y’all come in.

Suggest me some cars! My hard requirements:

Manual. I’m so bored in my auto DD now that I practice braking to a stop as smoothly as I possibly can, to stay entertained

Hatchback or wagon. Need to have enough space to belt in doggo in back seats and have enough cargo room left over to carry two people + doggo’s supplies for a week-long wilderness trip.

Safe enough that I have a reasonable expectation of not dying even at highway speed incidents. Y’know, impact absorption zones and airbags and stuff. I figure this is a proxy for being built no earlier than the aughts (or maybe late 90s).

No leather interiors.

My not-as-hard requirement:

Budget of $5k tops, the whole thing. No financing; as a protestant-raised Midwestern boy I am basically allergic to debt. Maybe if the loan term was a year or less but does anyone even do that these days?

And my preferences:

I think I’d prefer something that has a little fun in the dynamics department. Not necessarily fast or powerful, but engaging.

Willing to do wrench turning as long as it doesn’t involve, like, engine hoists.

Very slight nudge towards a European manufacturer since I’ve owned Japanese and American so far.

Orange

I’m based in Portland (OR) and can’t really travel too far out to pick it up. Maybe up to Seattle if someone up there could look it over for me.

Based on a few days of looking, here are my impressions so far:

Outbacks. Outbacks as far as the eye can see. Everyone seems to knock the current models for weak engines and numb dynamics, but was that true of the smaller ones from a decade or more ago? I’ve seen some kind words about the 3rd gen’s XT trim online.

The Fit is my current top pick and is plenty popular too, though obviously not to the absurd level that Outbacks are.

So.... how bad of an idea is owning a 15-to-20-year-old, 200k mile German car?

I’m really attracted to suspiciously cheap Volvo V70 and XC90s.

Tripper > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 10:42

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Honestly that F it you posted isn’t a bad choice. It’s not going to win any beauty contests but they are incredibly practical and mildly fun. It’s amazing what you can fit in such a small car (no pun intended). My friend had a 3 pedal Fit and it definitely had the slow car fast fun factor. They’re also pretty good on gas.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 10:43

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So first of all: scratch your no loan requirement. Get an installment l oan from your bank or credit union . Stretch it out as long as you can. Then pay it off early. Looks better on your credit.

High mileage Germans, yeah, you’d die in the first week of ownership. Hard pass. But you’re in the PNW.

https://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/d/tacoma-2002-ford-zx2-sport-coupe/6768338667.html

Give ‘em $1500, get a new timing belt and water pump (it’s due by miles and years,) throw the rest into the suspension and a few mild bolt ons .

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 10:56

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$5K max and you want a European car?

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/everything-wrong-with-my-2000-volvo-1830203250

Future Heap Owner > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 01/02/2019 at 11:01

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He got away with it for less than $5k after the first round of repairs

Future Heap Owner > Tripper 01/02/2019 at 11:02

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Yeah, Fit is top contender for sure

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 11:03

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I know, I guess the headache isn't worth it for me, but if you can do your own wrenching, I say go for it!

diplodicus > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 11:05

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https://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/cto/d/beaverton-1984-bmw-533i/6751544541.html

I ignored almost all of your criteria.

You can fit a lot in the trunk as long as it’s not super tall. The trunk isn’t as tall as it appears from the outside. Gas tank and spare tire well take up quite a bit of space.

I’d offer 2500 on this one.

https://corvallis.craigslist.org/cto/d/corvallis-1992-bmw-525i-touring-5spd/6773785900.html

diplodicus > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 01/02/2019 at 11:08

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Zx2 with a manual is a hell of a lot of fun. 

Future Heap Owner > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 01/02/2019 at 11:08

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A coupe is a no-go; I need a second row of doors for easy doggo entrance and exit, and a good amount of cargo space. I think this restricts me to hatchbacks or wagons.

Future Heap Owner > diplodicus 01/02/2019 at 11:15

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On one hand, yes these are somewhat tempting. On the other, I can only think that buying a 20-year-old German car with over 200k miles will  end in tears.

My “no leather interiors” requirement probably rules out any BMW or Volvo anyways.

Wobbles the Mind > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 11:16

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Scion xB probably.

I’d also at least look at a brand new Kia Rio5 (or any other subcompact) and see if you qualify for 0% financing. Instead of spending $4 ,000 in one shot, you can spend $3,500 over 12 months, zero interest, have a full warranty, great tech, surprising features, and pretty negligible depreciation due to the low price point. Doesn’t have to be a Korean car, but I think the new Rio is the most  impressive.

diplodicus > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 11:23

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Quite a few e30s were built with cloth interiors. But it’s not super spacious for 3 people and a dog.

Future Heap Owner > diplodicus 01/02/2019 at 11:28

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That 525i touring def looks spacious enough. Only has to be 2 people, doggo, and their cargo.

Future Heap Owner > Wobbles the Mind 01/02/2019 at 11:30

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I think a subcompact is gonna be too small for my road trip use case of hauling two people plus a doggo plus all their cargo for a week and a half.

But wait, you’re telling me they sell new  cars for less than $5k total?

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 11:40

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Biased, but just pick up a Golf. MkIVs are generally under 2k with a stick, but good luck on orange. They're cheap because they're bad, though, so hunt for a MkV. GTIs of that era are decently reliable (for a VW) and fun. FWIW the guy I bought ny Golf from had three MkC GTIs sitting in his backyard that he was repairing from Salvage title. Take that as you wish. 

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 11:42

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TBH the thumbnail nails it. Honda Fit Sport, lowest miles you can find with a manual. The most absurdly spacious interior ever, super flickable, not fast but peppy, Honda-reliable.. . I tried really hard to get one but time was working against me and I ended up with a Mazda6 V6 instead.

Future Heap Owner > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 01/02/2019 at 11:56

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Could you explain a little bit what exactly  “decently reliable (for a VW)” entails? We talking lots of minor issues at this point, or, like, “make sure you do head gasket, timing belt, water pump after you buy”?

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 12:33

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This, sir, is how we say.. NOT A PROBLEM.

Because!

YEP! They come in four door and wagon! (Do NOT break the rear quarter windows though. Seriously. Don’t. They’re a bitch to replace.)

Mind, if you go with the prior gen wagon, you’ll have the 1.9 CVH SOHC.

Which is actually cheaper  to make power on.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > diplodicus 01/02/2019 at 12:36

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Especially if you put some money in the suspension. The S/R isn’t bad, but it’s such a shitshow, it’s not worth the risk. They were missing half the S/R parts when sold new if you were lucky . No way in hell you got the ‘dealer install’ clutch upgrade. So you’d just end up with badges and having to buy all the damn suspension parts anyway.

MiniGTI - now with XJ6 > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 13:59

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As a side note, my wife, 19 month son, and I are out in central PA for Christmas, leaving to go back to Chicago Friday. Have accumulated too much junk this trip. What can we trade our 2013 GTI for real quick?  Must be manual, some vague attempt at driving dynamics preferred. GO!

MiniGTI - now with XJ6 > MiniGTI - now with XJ6 01/02/2019 at 14:18

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How about this! I had no idea they sold these in Manual in the us, but pics verify!!

https://harrisburg.craigslist.org/ctd/d/sunbury-2012-volkswagen-ccr-line/6784985371.html

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 14:19

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A fit is a great choice. A 2006-2008 GTI should be in your price range particularly in 2 door form. Decent space with rear seats folded.

Mk5 was a bit of a turning point for VW from what I’ve read; reliability is not perfect but not bad. There’s a million pages online about what to look for I’m sure.

You could always get just a personal loan for a fairly small amount and pay it off in a year.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 14:51

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Mechanically VWs are rock solid, but there are weird issues time to time, nearly always electrical. I also have persistent smog system problems, as did my brother when he had a 2000 Golf. Be wary of that if you live in an emissions testing area. Other than that, VWs with the 2.0 8 valve engine like to eat ignition coils (it’s one unit, they aren’t coil on plug). Various sensors, like the hall effect sensor on the distributor and the manifold absolute pressure sensor also like to fail.

The guy I bought my car from had done timing belt/head gasket at 130k ish miles. All old VWs leak from head gasket and crank seal, but not so much you can't fix it with RTV. 

I’ve had no engine trouble in the 6 months I’ve had mine. I have also had weird issues that I can’t really describe or reproduce with either shift linkage or TOB. VWs are fun to drive and older ones are easy to work on, but they’re always broken in some small way, but never broken enough to be inoperable. If you buy an old VW, make sure there’s a self service junkyard nearby.

Future Heap Owner > Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle 01/02/2019 at 14:54

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2-door is a no-go because I need easy entry & exit for a medium-large doggo, and I want good cargo space with the rear seats up. And so far it seems like the 4-door GTIs of that vintage are well outside my price range.

Future Heap Owner > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 01/02/2019 at 14:56

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Always broken in some small way is kind of a plus to me, if they’re not too hard to work on.

Around what year  did they stop being easy to work on?

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 15:24

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Oh yeah, super simple as far as I’ve done. I replace d both axles after one 22 year old CV joint failed and it took all of maybe 6 hours to do both with the help of an equally inept brother.

I know both Mk3 and 4 Golfs have pretty open engine bays, packaged such that working in there is no trouble. MkV and on it gets a bit tight, so I’d stay pre-2005. Take a look at VWvo rtex to get a good idea of what common problems are. 

Gerry197 > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 15:27

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As someone who has owned old German, Japanese and American cars, I would say no on anything German, especially VW and BMW, forget about it, especially if you are use to Japanese and American cars for maintenance and repair costs. Same big no to Volvo.

$5,000 leaves you with a ton of choices, though manuals are really starting to get hard to find unless older econo/strippers or performance cars.

I’d say you reached your best choice is the Honda Fit, though as someone already mentioned, the Toyota Scion XB is a nice choice as well. Also, the Toyota Yaris is a direct competitor to the Fit, you may want to take a look as well.  

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 15:36

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Oh, I reread your post. If safety is important, keep in mind that Mk3s are tiny and Mk4s aren't much bigger. I'm nervous driving next to brodozers. The top of my car (with stockish ride height) is below the hood of many new trucks. 

Future Heap Owner > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 01/02/2019 at 15:49

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Cool, I’ll keep these in mind. Thanks for the input!

Future Heap Owner > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 01/02/2019 at 15:50

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Cool, thanks for the input!

Future Heap Owner > Gerry197 01/02/2019 at 15:52

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Yeah... you’re probably right about those Germans.

Thanks for the input!

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 16:01

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My pleasure! And if you go that route, always happy to help troubleshoot any issues. :)

Gerry197 > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 16:22

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Absolutely, though I am curious to why you want only cloth?  I prefer leather when carrying our dogs or anything else for that matter, easier to clean and care for, won’t soak up those pesky smells and stains as well.  

Future Heap Owner > Gerry197 01/02/2019 at 17:11

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Ethical reasons, not practical ones. I’m vegan, so I try to avoid purchasing animal products .

I have a seat cover thing and blanket over the back seats at all times, except on the rare occasion when I transport more than one other person. Does a decent job of keeping the hair and mud off the seats.

Gerry197 > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 17:14

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Oh, gotcha.  

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 18:45

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Mazda 3!

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 18:47

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1st gen Matrix XRS, or Pontiac Vibe GT.

Future Heap Owner > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 01/02/2019 at 18:51

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Woah, there was a Matrix XRS? I thought that only a few thousand of the Corolla XRSs were sold here, so I didn’t think there was a Matrix version.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 19:00

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Matrix XRS contained the 2ZZ and were available in auto or stick. 2003 is the year to get, with 180 HP. Later versions had about 167.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 01/02/2019 at 19:03

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Second this on the loan thing. I bought my used subaru with a 2 year loan because I wanted to keep my savings account funded and build up some credit for when I go house shopping in the future. Its annoying having relatively high payments but I am paying minimal interest thanks to the short term and 3% interest I got from the credit union. Once that is paid off and I finish some of my student loans later this year, I am going to feel rich!

Except for the problem that a small amount like sub $5k, paying cash is just easier and I would imagine sellers in that price range aren’t willing to deal with meeting at a bank to cash your loan check.

Dogsatemypants > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 19:07

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Honda fit seats are stiff and uncomfortable to me. I have an xc70 priced to get moving again. Lets talk

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 19:08

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As someone who has owned lots of older,  out-of-warranty German cars, all I can say is don’t do it. Find a nice Mazda5 with a manual.  Small enough to feel like you’re not driving a minivan, and sliding doors are the best thing ever. Or a Mazda3 if you don’t want the stigma of driving a minivan.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 01/02/2019 at 19:13

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That’s why I specified a personal or installment loan. These are different from auto loans in that the bank doesn’t have to see the car and really doesn’t care what you’re doing with the money. They just give you a check made out to you, basically. You might get a better interest rate by disclosing it’s being used for a car (and therefore a loan secured by a tangible asset) but it’s not strictly necessary.

And at small dollar amounts, it’s easy to get and easy to get approved, especially if you have that much cash on hand. If you get a loan from the bank for $5000 when you have $10,000 in your accounts and a $250 weekly direct deposit ? They’re not worried, because they know they can get their money.

When you find your car, you just go get a cashier’s check or cash in the correct amount. And just make your monthly payments. Had a bunch left over? Pay the loan back with itself. Decide you don’t want to pay any more, just pay it off. Either way it looks good on your credit.

wafflesnfalafel > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 19:18

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late 1st gen, (08, 09) or 2nd gen Mazda 3 hatch, 2nd gen Honda Fit, last gen Subie Impreza hatch, there are some Nissan Jukes at that price point, maybe Zoidberg will sell you his wife’s Pontiac Vibe,

CompactLuxuryFan > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 19:29

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99% of German cars you’d be looking at probably don’t have real leather seats (most are vynil such as MBTex or BMW’s SensaTec ). However, most steering wheels are actual leather, even on not-so-luxury cars.

Future Heap Owner > CompactLuxuryFan 01/02/2019 at 19:37

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Interesting. Do you know of a good way to look up whether the leather is synthetic?

CompactLuxuryFan > Future Heap Owner 01/02/2019 at 20:55

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For the seats for most German cars you can use a VIN decoder to see whether a genuine leather option was selected. Like I said, most entry-level Germans are purchased with the fake stuff. Especially for BMW, the ad would probably say if it’s actual leather (Dakota leather for the years you’d be looking at I believe), since it’s always been either a pricey option or part of the expensive premium package . I’m not really an expert here, sorry. Probably googling the specific model you’re looking at would be helpful.

Future Heap Owner > CompactLuxuryFan 01/02/2019 at 21:50

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That’s a good place to start, thanks! I am even less expert than you, so that’s helpful.